Channel Four transcript
Dec 16 2004
INTERVIEW WITH HAZEL BLEARS, HOME OFFICE
MINISTERJon Snow :Why aren’t you ordering
the release of the detainees tonight? Hazel Blears :
We have evidence from the security services and the intelligence that we have
been considering for a long time, that these people still continue to pose a
significant security threat to this country.
But you are
acting illegally… No, what the House of Lords have decided
today is that in their opinion the provisions that we passed some time ago are
incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. Now, what happens to
the law is a matter for Parliament, and Parliament has to consider its position.
It does not mean that the current law is not effective. The law remains in
place. The certificates and the detention are perfectly lawful and these people
will remain in detention until Parliament decides what to do about this
situation.
People are going to find this absolutely
extraordinary. Here is the highest court in the land that says you are in breach
of the European Human Rights Act and furthermore, that you are in breach of just
about every tenet of English law. They have said they are unequivocal about
this, that eight to one they have said you are in the wrong, that these men
should be freed… Our overriding responsibility is to protect
the security of this nation, and we have intelligence and evidence that these
people pose a significant threat, it is very difficult to get the balance right
between liberty and security, and that is what we struggle with all this time.
But we still feel that these people are a threat, and in those circumstances,
it's for Parliament to decide what to do in the light of the House of Lords
judgement.
You do not address what Lord Hoffmann says: "The
real threat to the life of a nation in a sense of a nation living in accordance
with its traditional laws and political values comes not from terrorism but laws
such as these". That's one point of view. We also think
people who pose a significant threat as told by our security services, where we
are right to view them as terrorists, we consider it right to make sure that
they are not allowed to wander the streets of this country freely and to do the
horrific damage that might result.
The judges say you are
acting disproportionately, the level of threat is absolutely not consistent with
what you are doing to these men, they have been incarcerated for three years,
are you happy for them to die in custody? That's not the
case. The position is that a High Court judge in a Special Immigration Appeals
Commission, who had access to all the intelligence...
Come
on...who? … had access to all the intelligence, confirmed
they were a threat, the Court of Appeal...this is the highest court in the
land…the Court of Appeal a few months ago unanimously decided our position is
right.
The House of Lords has made their judgement, that it's
incompatible with the European judgement, and Parliament must decide what to do.
You have named three lower courts below the House of Lords.
You are choosing to ignore the highest court… Its actions
are a matter for Parliament properly in the terms of the European Convention to
decide what action to take, and our overriding concern is the future protection
of this nation, to make sure that the people stay safe.
So
you, as a minister, have decided to ignore this judgement by the House of Lords,
yes or no? I don't think you are listening to me...
I am listening to you and I do not hear you addressing
today's judgement I said it was a matter for Parliament to
decide, and when this law was passed, it was made very clear to Parliament, that
it had a number of options, where there is a declaration of incompatibility with
European law, it's a matter for Parliament to decide what action to take in
relation to that law, and that law being passed by Parliament, remains valid
until Parliament decides what action to take.
The judges are
saying unequivocally you are in breach of the law, it does not matter about
Parliament or anything else, the fact is that you are in breach of this law,
these men should be freed… I think it does matter what
Parliament thinks, not ministers, but what parliament thinks in these
circumstances, and Parliament will decide.
Why do we bother
with the House of Lords then, should we get rid of it? The
House of Lords is a very, very important factor in our constitution, it is very
important to our democracy and these are very, very serious issues indeed, that
is why we will be considering the judgment extremely carefully indeed.