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`Kelly was Murdered' Says UK Intelligence Insider



by Simon Aronowitz

Editor -


Monday 23rd February 2004





Dr David Kelly


Shocking new details about the death of Dr David Kelly emerged today exclusively on the Alex Jones radio show. Michael Shrimpton, a UK national security lawyer who was a guest on the show, revealed that sources within MI5 and MI6 are `furious' that Kelly was murdered.


Shrimpton spoke in depth about the details of Kelly's murder on 17th July 2003, information which has been withheld by the British press.


With apparent backing from the organisations whose members he claims to speak for, Shrimpton presented their view that Dr Kelly had been murdered by a team of assassins and the charade of an apparent suicide was then played out to cover this up.


Speaking with impeccable credentials, including contributions to the Journal for International Security Affairs and having previously given a closed-doors confidential briefing the US Senate Intelligence Committee, Shrimpton exploded the much-reported myth that Dr Kelly had taken his own life.


He spoke of the probable method of Kelly's death, the group which most likely carried out the assassination, who arranged it and finally where the responsibility lies. Additionally, he explained the political context and motive for Kelly's murder.


David Kelly went missing on 17th July 2003 and was found dead on 18th July. In the previous days, Kelly had testified before Parliament's Foreign Affairs Select Committee that he was not the source of a BBC story which had accused the Government of making false claims about Iraq's WMD. When Kelly's body was found, the British press quickly reported it as a suicide, though several analysts had their doubts.


On Jones' show, Shrimpton explained how he had learned that David Kelly was the BBC's source before the BBC disclosed this fact. He went on to explain that his source from within the intelligence community knew David Kelly personally, and did not believe that he had committed suicide. After making their own enquiries, says Shrimpton, this source determined that Dr Kelly had not committed suicide, but rather had been assassinated.



Michael Shrimpton


Apparently at ease to discuss these explosive disclosures, Shrimpton explained that there was advance knowledge of Kelly's death in Whitehall, but that the deed itself was most likely carried out by the French external security organisation, DGSE. There was no indication that anybody in MI5 or MI6 had been involved. He went further by suggesting that the hit squad itself was composed of Iraqis from the former regime's Mukhabarat intelligence organisation, recruited from Damascus with the help of Syria's own intelligence apparatus. They were apparently then flown into Corsica, seven days prior to the murder. He doubts that any of the hit-squad are still alive.


Officially, Kelly's body was said to have been found in a copse, in a wood, but the forensic tents were set up in the adjacent field, suggesting, says  Shrimpton, that the body was found in the field. This has not been explained to his satisfaction.


The incision in Kelly's wrist was probably to conceal the injection of both Dextroprypoxythene, the active ingredient in Co-Proxamol, and Succinylcholine, a muscle relaxant, rather than as evidence of his bleeding to death, as highlighted by a group of six doctors in letters published in the British press. Shrimpton further agreed with the doctors by pointing out that Kelly only had one Co-Proxamol tablet in his body and that this was not sufficient to kill him.


According to Shrimpton, Kelly was murdered because he had been talking to the press and there was a fear of what else he might discuss with journalists. Furthermore, Kelly was due to return to Iraq and may have learned fresh information on that trip which Whitehall could not afford to trust him with.


Shrimpton's appearance on Jones' show gave him the first public opportunity to bring forward his information, since the story has been effectively censored by the British Press, who according to Shrimpton are concerned about losing the pro-Euro Tony Blair as Prime Minister were they to publish details of Kelly's assassination. Blair's departure, he says, could threaten Britain's proposed adoption of the Euro as the national currency.


Whilst this story begins to circulate in the USA, the coverage in the UK may well remain nil, whilst maneuvering behind the scenes attempts to pre-empt Shrimpton's accusation of government-sanctioned murder of one of its own operatives.


Only with public support, and a belief that this information should be widely known, can this information be brought into the wide open and covered by the mainstream media.



Click this link to listen to the interview ~ The Murder of Dr. David Kelly: Alex Jones Interviews Michael Shrimpton

Monday 23rd February 2004


Alex Jones: Before we go to our first guest, who Im honoured to have, well our guest for this hour, I wanted to just remind you that Dr David Kelly was the head of the Level-4 Porton Down Bio-weapons lab in Wiltshire, England. And he was then the head British weapons inspector whod been pro-war. He then came back and leaked information that `look Im a hawk for this war but Im not gonna lie. Saddam doesnt have weapons of mass destruction. And Tony Blair mis-used my assessment.
Well suddenly he wound up dead. He told British and US colleagues that `Im gonna be murdered and found dead in the woods if I dont shut up.

This is now mainstream news. Three top doctors have gone public who have looked at the autopsy results and say he was clearly, he clearly did not commit suicide, and we have that posted at and So a lot of people are starting to go public on this.

There were rumours of this last week that somebody who had been inside the British government had sources who said that they could confirm that Dr David Kelly had been killed, but the folks that got that story, I guess didnt take time out to go ahead and get in contact with the individual who was bringing forward this information himself. Weve done that and hes coming up here in just a few minutes and were so honoured to have him with us here on the show. Hes Michael Shrimpton and Michael Shrimpton has a long bio. I did some research on him over the weekend. Michael Shrimpton, of course, is a national security lawyer, that is barrister, in government matters. Hes written for the Journal for International Security Affairs. He has given advice and briefed the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, thats the US Senate. Hes given speeches and consulted all over western Europe and the United States. And of course hes been an invited guest of the State Department.

So hes a mainstream guy, and I was very impressed talking to him. Were about to break for a quick three minute break, come back and join a bunch of stations that carry news during this segment. And Ill briefly re-cap who our guest is and well go to him. Michael Shrimpton is on the line with us, and again were gonna break and come back, and he has some bombshell information for you from his sources inside MI5 and MI6. Again, hes a national security lawyer, that is barrister, who has advised the United States Senate Intelligence Committee. So you wanna have your tape recorders going, you wanna call your friends and family and tell them to tune into this show. And one of our great writers, Simon, is going to have an article written for us by this evening that will be posted on the websites as well.

[Commercial Break]

Were going to have an article this evening on the websites. Itll appear first on and I wanna thank Simon, and I wanna thank Rowena and Paul Watson and all the folks that have been working on this story and for getting us this guest. And again hes Michael Shrimpton and a national security lawyer or barrister, and hes written for major anti-terrorism journals. He has given his expert advice to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for the US Senate, and the bio goes on and on. Hes also been involved in a lot of prominent, high profile cases in England. I came across that in my research on him. And hes a really nice fella, during the break I was talking to him and I said `Yknow, I hope you dont end up in the woods like Dr David Kelly, and he said `Well, no, by going public you protect yourself.

And thats the truth. For other government whistleblowers, telling the truth is what protects you. If you covertly leak something, thats whats dangerous. So he protects himself by going on air. And obviously because of all of his sources hes a great source for all of us.

Michael, good to have you on the show with us.

Michael Shrimpton: [inaudible]

AJ: Just, for folks around the world who arent very familiar with Dr David Kelly, hard to believe people arent, could you re-cap who he was, what happened to him and then from your sources you even know down to the specifics of how they killed him and from your sources who was behind the killing. Can you just go through it for us?

MS: Yes, David Kelly was probably the most respected microbiologist in the United Kingdom. Certainly one who specialised in weapons of mass destruction. And he was the head of our main WMD laboratory at Porton Down in Wiltshire. He was very involved in the dismantling, verification of the dismantling of the Soviet WMD programmes after the end of the Cold War. He spent some time inside what was the bad old USSR. He was the senior British inspector on UNSCOM, the UN mission inside Iraq. He spent some considerable time in Baghdad. He was working very closely with our overseas intelligence service, MI6 or the Secret Intelligence Service, and he was a major, high-value, British intelligence asset. He was a good man. Decorated, awarded the CMG, Commander of St Michael and St George. Highly regarded and well liked too within the British intelligence community, and also respected in the United States.

AJ: And then suddenly Tony Blairs smearing him in the press and he ends up dead, and the witnesses according to the London Times and their publications, saw four men in black uniforms standing around him, they run off and `Oh, its a suicide. Go over the whole controversy of, I mean Dr David Kelly was a hawk for the war, but he wasnt going to put out false intelligence. Go through that for folks that missed out on it.

MS: Well, yes. David Kelly briefed in a British BBC journalist called Andrew Gilligan and also spoke to another journalist for the BBC Televisions Newsnight programme, and he briefed in both journalists along the lines that the case for, the WMD case for war with Iraq had been exaggerated. Theres a lot of dispute about exactly what was said and what wasnt said. The BBC Today programme which is the leading radio current affairs programme led with a story from Andrew Gilligan, which didnt name David Kelly as Andrews source. Now we know that David Kelly was, and my own intelligence sources confirmed that before the BBC itself confirmed it on Sunday 20th July. David Kelly was outed in the media, big dispute as to who authorised his name to be given to the media, and he was asked to appear before a committee in the House of Commons. There was a lot of controversy about what the government had been told, how truthful a dossier that they had prepared on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction was, and shortly after he gave evidence to the House of Commons, he was found dead on Friday 18th July of last year. He was found dead. There is a dispute over exactly where he was found.

According to the official version of events he was found dead in a copse, or a wood, at a place called Harrowdown Hill, between the village where he lived and the River Thames. But the forensic tent, its noticeable, Alex, that the forensic tents that were set up by the local police force, Thames Valley Police, were actually set up in the field. Why you would have someone killed in the woods and have the police tent over the scene of the crime set up in the field, no-one has yet been able to explain to my satisfaction.

Now the government were blamed for causing the death, but the way the government were criticised was this: that they had caused his name to be leaked to the media. That had put him under intolerable pressure and he had allegedly committed suicide. The initial media reports all went with suicide and the mainstream media in the UK is still reporting it as a suicide. The government responded very quickly and brought in a Law Lord, Lord Hutton, whod previously been Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. And the Hutton Inquiry has very recently reported. Lord Hutton didnt challenge the suicide verdict, there was no cross-examination of witnesses before the Hutton Inquiry as to the cause of death. It was assumed that it was suicide and the BBC were essentially blamed for poor reporting, the government were let off the hook.

The Hutton Report, Im sorry to say, is widely seen as a whitewash and its been rubbished. A very senior British Intelligence officer recently retired, a Lieutenant Colonel, Crispin Black, who was on the Defence Intelligence Staff until 2002, has basically described the report as a `laughing stock and I respectfully agree.

AJ: Now Ive seen major polls where over two thirds of the British people believe its a complete fraud. I mean obviously Tony Blair hires one of his cronies to come in and say `Oh you didnt do anything wrong and then even thats a whitewash of a larger whitewash because obviously according to the medical reports, the coroners report, the doctors that have looked at it, the suicide verdict  thats a fraud itself and lets go into your sources and what really happened to Dr David Kelly.

MS: Absolutely, although I wouldnt be allowed to say that Tony Blair had hired a judge, you understand that in England we dont hire judges [chuckles]. The judge is on the State payroll anyway and I wouldnt want to be thought of as suggesting that anybody had put a little extra funds Lord Huttons way. Im quite sure Lord Hutton took no extra payment.

AJ: Well what Im saying is, is that obviously Huttons been involved with whats been called whitewashes in the past.

MS: The Report, Im sorry to say, with respect to Lord Hutton, the Report is a complete whitewash.

AJ: Well I mean they take, I mean you have a government institution whitewashing for another government institution.

MS: Well exactly. This is the problem with appointing senior judges to hold inquiries. Theres been a lot of adverse comment in England. The senior judge is, by definition, part of the establishment. Its very difficult to judge, of course, if he whitewashes the government, everybody says `Well it is a whitewash. If he blames the government, well its asking too much of a senior judge to go around blaming the government. Its not what senior judges do.

AJ: I mean what do you expect? I mean here we have it where Janet Reno hires somebody to investigate Waco, I mean she literally appoints the investigator. We have Bush controlling the 9/11 panel, I mean its ridiculous. But getting into the specifics of Dr David Kellys clear murder, lets go over that.

MS: Well, absolutely. Now on Saturday 19th July, David was murdered on the 17th, on Saturday the 19th, within 48 hours of the murder, I was contacted by a British intelligence officer who told me hed been murdered. That didnt take me by surprise, I was suspicious of the suicide theory from the word go. Now that source told me hed done some digging and discovered that, he didnt name names but he discovered that it had been known about in Whitehall prior to the 17th July that David Kelly was going to be taken down. Now normally with a suicide, Alex, you appreciate that we dont like people knowing in advance. If people know in advance of the death, that normally points away from suicide.

AJ: Yes


AJ: [Chuckles]

MS: [Chuckles] Exactly. Now a lot of work has been done since the murder, and theres been particularly a great deal of medical research. Now its absolutely clear that David was murdered. The suicide theory just doesnt hold water at all. The official version of events is that he took some Co-Proxamol tablets. Now Co-Proxamol is available in England only by prescription. There is a problem with that because there is no evidence that David Kelly was ever prescribed Co-Proxamol. Now Co-Proxamol I think is available in the United States, its a combination of Dextropropoxythene and paracetamol in a ratio of 1 to 10. Its not a very powerful painkiller and the level of Co-Proxamol in the blood stream according to the official toxicology report was about one third, i.e. not enough to kill him. Now 29 tablets were allegedly missing, or were missing, from a packet of Co-Proxamol found by the body. The problem is that there is only one fifth of a tablet in the stomach and theres no evidence of substantial vomiting. There was a little bit of vomit found on the body but not much. And theres no analysis done of the material.

The stomach contents do not support the suggestion that he ingested 29 Co-Proxamol tablets. Interestingly, the initial media reports, and when we look at staged suicides or political assassinations, I find it very useful to concentrate on the early media reports because if there is a cover-up, usually the cover-up kicks in after 12, 24, 36 hours. The first media reports are very often the most accurate, particularly if theyre coming from local news organisations. The early media reports made no mention of a bottle of water. The theory is, Alex, that he took these Co-Proxamol tablets having set out on a walk, in the course of which he was going to commit suicide, and took with him a bottle of water to swallow the tablets. Problem  no mention in early media reports of any bottle of water. That detail was only added in after a group of concerned people in England, professionals called the `Kelly Group had made the point and it was already out into the open. Now, the suicide version of events cant be right. He was found with one wrist slashed and the ulnar artery, which is the artery

AJ: Tell you what, weve got a break. Were gonna come back and go over the circumstantial evidence and then your sources inside intelligence that say `Hey, we got the word he was about to be killed and then who killed him. Well talk about that too.

[Commercial Break]

AJ: Alright, this is a quick segment. Weve got a longer segment coming up. Plenty of time to go over this evidence with our guest, and our guest would like to take calls so later in the interview, if youd like to talk to our guest the toll-free number to join us is 1-800 259 9231.

Were talking to Michael Shrimpton and hes a national security barrister in England. He has given testimony and advice to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for the US Senate, and hes obviously very knowledgeable about intelligence and the activities of intelligence agencies. He has a lot of sources in MI5 and MI6. You just heard him talk about one source inside British intelligence that said they got word that Kelly was about to be killed by the government a week or so before he actually died. I want to go back into that in more detail coming up here in a few minutes. But Mr Shrimpton was then going over the material evidence of the murder and youve gotten to the point of the slitting of the wrist.

MS: Yeah, he clearly didnt slit his own wrist. The idea that he exsanguinated, that he died from haemorrhaging, he bled out from a cut to one wrist only, to the ulnar artery, is just a nonsense Alex. Firstly the artery that was cut was the ulnar artery which is more difficult to reach, its on the little finger side of the hand. Its deeper than the radial artery. Why go for an artery deep in the wrist when you can slit an artery much closer to the surface of the skin. Thats the first problem.

The second problem, he, according to the autopsy report, he severed or transected the artery. But once you transect an artery, we have something called vaso-constriction. The artery retracts and that promotes clotting. Its very difficult to bleed out if you sever one artery only.

AJ: And I would second that with David Halpin, a doctor, a prominent orthopaedic surgeon, as well as Stephen Frost, specialist in diagnostics. I mean theres a whole bunch of top-level doctors saying `This is a complete fraud.

MS: Exactly. One doctor went around promoting the official version of events and attacked these doctors in the Guardian newspaper in England and talked about slashing `wrists. Well David Kelly on the official version of events didnt slash his wrists, plural, he slashed one wrist only. Its highly unusual. Firstly, wrist slashing is not an effective method of committing sucide. One of the reasons people do it in a bath of hot water

AJ: That keeps the veins open

MS:  Is that you need to keep the temperature high. Yup. If youre out in the open, if youre not keeping the temperature high, the wrists, the arteries will not stay dilated. It is very difficult indeed to bleed out in the open even if you slit both wrists. Slitting one wrist only  much less blood loss and we have conflicting accounts for the amount of blood found by the body. The most reliable eye-witnesses, in my judgement, are probably the paramedics who found him. They talked about comparatively little blood loss. There is no solid evidence that any large, that a lot of blood had left the body. There were no adequate measurements of the amount of blood left in the major vessels, in the heart and so on.

AJ: Now talking to you earlier today, its pretty clear that they drug him up, then as hes dying slit his wrist to create this scene. From your sources inside the intelligence community, what really happened to Dr David Kelly?

MS: In my judgement, based on conversations with sources and with medical experts and a great deal of work has been done over this since the murder, he was probably murdered by a combination of an injection, not through tablets, but an intravenous injection of Dextropropoxythene and paracetamol, the constituents of Co-Proxamol, and a muscle relaxant called Succinylcholine. Now Succinylcholine is a favourite method of assassinating people, its used by intelligence agencies, particularly the French DGSE. Succinylcholine, although its used therapeutically for treating [inaudible] incubation and so on, can be lethal and in combination with the constituents of Co-Proxamol, 30 milligrammes would probably have been a lethal dose. The problem for someone investigating an assassination by Succinylcholine is that it metabolises even after death and you only pick up the metabolites. In other words its one of those drugs that leaves no trace unless you have a very expert pathologist who really knows what he or she is doing.

AJ: Yeah all you can find is what it metabolises into. You cannot find the original chemical.

MS: Exactly. So you have to look for the enzymes it metabolises into. You wont find any trace of the original drug. [inaudible]

AJ: Well its like with AIDS, you look for the antibodies cos you cant find the virus.

MS: Well, very effectively, yeah. Its fairly clear that the slash to the wrist was done to disguise the puncture wound. Theres no puncture wound, but of course the slash to the wrist wouldve disguised it. Now the palm or face of the wrist, effectively the inside face of the wrist, is a very popular method, you know anaesthesiologists would use it to inject. Its quite realistic to suppose that David Kelly was injected in the wrist with the muscle relaxant and the Dextropropoxythene and the

AJ: Tell you what, weve got a break again. Well come back and get into your source and take some calls.

[Commercial Break]

AJ: Folks, this is very very important, because Tony Blair is a minion of the globalists. Hes the tool whos trying to destroy British national sovereignty, to bring the British people under the dominance of the un-elected unaccountable European Union whether they like it or not. Hes been promised the EU head-ship under a new expanded, empowered EU, if he can get Britain into it. He lied about the weapons of mass destruction. Its clear that if Tony Blair was to have been exposed, that would certainly hurt those in Europe that want to get rid of British sovereignty.

And talking to Michael Shrimpton, our guest, our intelligence expert who has his sources over there in England. Talking to you earlier before the show, you talked about your sources, the evidence you have that it looks like that it was elements of British intelligence or of the government using French intelligence to go and do their dirty work which, by the way, is a standard operation if intelligence agencies are getting rid of some of their own people, they will generally use a sister agency in a sister country. I know this is very delicate, Michael, but can you go over what you talked to me off-air about?

MS: Yes Alex. Firstly I should make it clear that I have absolutely no negation that anybody in either of the British intelligence agencies, MI5, the Security Service, or MI6, The Secret Intelligence Service, being involved. On the contrary, my sources are telling me that both services are extremely unhappy. Now the indications are, now you understand Im being cautious on air, but there indications pointing towards an involvement by the French external intelligence agency the DGSE or Direction Ginirale de la Sicuriti Extirieure.

AJ: But obviously theyve got a liaison within the government, the British government. Theyve gotta have someone authorising this, or are you saying its just a rogue element wanting to get rid of somebody who could mess up the EU?

MS: No, again Ive got to be obviously careful on air, but the indications are that the tasking for the assassination came from within the UK, but I cant name any individual official or minister. The tasking was generated in the UK, went to Paris, was then OKd in Paris, and on the information available to me, the operational agency for the assassination was DGSE. Now there are also indications, and Im again, obviously Alex you appreciate Im expressing myself with caution here, there are indications that DGSE, in order to false-flag the assassination, should their team be discovered, used Iraqi intelligence assets from the Iraqi Mukhabarat agency that were available in Damascus after the fall of Baghdad. And I have one source suggesting that an Iraqi team, thats to say an ex-Mukhabarat team, recruited in Damascus with the assistance of the Syrian intelligence operation, also the Mukhabarat, were flown into Corsica in the seven days prior to the assassination of David Kelly. Now the standard French practice when they carry out assassinations is to take their own team out. I am very doubtful that any of the people involved directly in the assassination of David Kelly are still alive. It would be highly unusual for the French to permit anyone involved in the assassination for them to survive.

AJ: Well weve seen this in the past. Youve had the big controversy the BBCs reported on about British intelligence using Al-Qaeda individuals to try to kill Muammar Gaddaffi. I mean this is a classic deal. Of course the Iraqis were allies during the eighties and so a lot of these guys were trained in the US, trained in England, trained in France, and then bringing these assets back in.

MS: Yeah, that was a mess [laughs]. That was, er, we could spend another hour on that, Alex. Whoever authorised that operation did not know what they were doing. That was just a total shambles.

AJ: Well, I mean wouldnt these Iraqis know that they were doing this hit, that they were going to be in deep trouble afterwards, or were they told `You dont have a choice?

MS: Not necessarily. They may not have worked for French intelligence before. If youre offered a job by French intelligence I would turn it down.

AJ: [Laughs]

MS: Anybody approached by French intelligence to do a hit, I would strongly advise them to turn it down or even increase their life insurance. They were probably, I mean assuming it was Iraqis and I cant be positive; there are indications pointing towards an Iraqi involvement, I cant be positive about DGSE. I have a range of sources as youve said, and those sources point to Paris and they point towards DGSE. [Inaudible]

AJ: Now DGSE is the equivalent of an MI6, its outward. 

MS: Exactly.

AJ: DGSU is internal?

MS: Its the DST, Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire, which is the internal agency. And the DST are internal, the DGSE are external. Lets just put it this way, Alex, the operation has all the hallmarks of DGSE. British intelligence, or my sources, are furious, theyre not happy at all because David, after all, was a British intelligence asset.

AJ: Well by the way, my webmaster, Paul Watson, has talked to a major British news reporter who has talked directly to British intelligence, and they said months ago  Im talking six months ago  the same thing that you just said here.

MS: Well that is interesting because that would be almost certainly a different source to mine. It might be were talking to the same people. One of the problems in the intelligence world is `loop-back, something you think is independent confirmation, may [chuckles] may turn out to be..

AJ: No, I understand. But I mean clearly from the circumstantial, from the material evidence youve got murder, youve got a cover-up, youve got a spin, youve got a motive 

MS: Exactly.

AJ: - Youve got him telling the US doctor, his colleague, `If I dont shut up Im gonna be found dead in the woods. Theyre gonna kill me. I mean this is all public now, we have him saying `Theyre gonna kill me and put me in the woods. You said that youve talked to intelligence people whove said `Yeah, they knew Kelly was about to get it, before he even died. Can you elaborate on that?

MS: Yeah, the source that spoke to me on the 19th July, after the assassination, you see this source was a friend of David Kellys, so David was a friend of a friend. This source obviously is not very happy. It didnt take him five minutes to work out that this was murder, not suicide. He then made enquiries and he established from other sources that the murder was known about in advance, i.e. the murder of David Kelly was known about within a section of Whitehall, prior to the 17th July, and he was very unhappy. That source came through to me and effectively Im acting as an interface between the media and the intelligence community. It is not possible for the intelligence community to do what Im doing now and go on to a radio show and broadcast it around the world.

AJ: Well you have an impeccable record and youve been involved in a lot of high profile cases. Youve testified before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for our Senate here and you write for major intelligence journals. Youve certainly impressed me, Mr Shrimpton, because I study this stuff continually and youre just massively knowledgeable, more knowledgeable in many areas than I am.

MS: If I could just say, I should correct, I didnt testify before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the briefing I gave was a closed briefing entirely.

AJ: Thats what I meant.

MS: The Senators on the Committee, I had the privilege of meeting Senator Graham when he was chairman, just briefly, Senator Graham might not even recall the meeting. We met briefly when I happened to be in Congress on another matter. A very nice man.

AJ: Well just to be clear, sir, I know when you guys testify its always public-

MS: (Yeah / Cough ?)

AJ: - here, most of what they do, obviously you know, is behind doors, thats what I meant.

MS: Exactly, yeah. This is a, with the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, I was invited in to their operation - theyre very nice people  and this was a confidential briefing on a case in which Id been involved, which obviously I cant discuss on the air as a courtesy to the guys and girls I briefed in. Very nice people.

AJ: Absolutely. Now I was just going over some of your bio for folks. Now, as we sit here looking at this, for those who dont understand why an element inside England would want to use someone outside England, who would then use another membrane between them and the hit-men, thats just standard operating procedure. But why would the French be happy to go along with getting rid of Kelly?

MS: Well, it would depend on the French assessment of whether or not the government would be at risk. The French would definitely want Tony Blair, Tony Blairs government to remain in office. They would be very concerned indeed at any suggestion that might risk the government. Theres a very strong geo-political motive for the French retaining their ally. Dont forget that the Blair government is a close ally of President Chirac. There have been a series of private meetings between Prime Minister Blair and President Chirac since the [inaudible]

AJ: And theyre pushing the Euro, so they believe that if Blair is in danger, the Euros in danger.

MS: Well, exactly. Tony Blair is the most high profile politician in the UK committed to destroying the national currency. And the French very much want Blair to remain in office for geo-political reasons. Weve just had a very unusual summit between Blair, Chirac and the German Chancellor Schroeder. I have to be very cautious, Im not naming Tony Blair as the person who generated the tasking for the assassination. Indeed, I am quite comfortable that it wasnt Tony Blair who put the tasking into Paris. Now, question marks: What did he know and when did he know it? There I cant be so confident.

AJ: Well obviously Tony Blairs a puppet. I mean hes not running the entire mechanism of the government, so-

MS: Hes a puppet. Hes a puppet Prime Minister anyway. Hes committed to the European Union. I mean he takes his orders, like anyone says we should be in the European Union, you take your orders from Brussels, because thats what government from Brussels involves.

AJ: Exactly, so 

MS: Thats the constitutional position. You know European Community law is supreme, according to the European Union, and it takes precedence over British law.

AJ: Yeah your Magna Cartas gone if that sucker passes.

MS: [Chuckles] It does, these days, Alex. But thats a broader issue. Youre right incidentally on the false flagging. Im often called upon formally or informally  usually informally  to deconstruct assassinations, to look at a particular assassination and try and work out whats happened. Basically, in counter-intelligence work we would normally recognise eight methods of trying to disguise an assassination.

First method is you would try and blame it on your opponents. That was done in Sweden recently with the assassination of Anna Lindh, the very nice Swedish Foreign Minister. An attempt was made to blame that on opponents of Sweden joining the Euro.

You can blame it on a terrorist organisation. That was done particularly with the IRA and the attempted assassination of Margaret Thatcher; the assassination of the war hero, Airey Neave, a Conservative MP, was blamed on the Irish National Liberation Army. The terrorist organisation might carry out the assassination, but in almost every case the terrorist organisation is working for a government.

Third method of disguising assassinations, Alex, in my experience is to false-flag them, where its blamed on another agency. Now there are elements of false-flagging in the Kelly assassination, because had the team which carried out the assassination been discovered, clearly it could have been false-flagged via Baghdad, and you know, wed have heard about three Iraqis in Oxfordshire, if assuming it was Iraqis for the sake of argument, the blame would then go to Baghdad and Paris would be let off the hook. The Iranians tried that quite successfully with the attempted assassination of the Pope, back in the early 1980s.

Then you have the lone-gunman theory. Now you guys are very familiar with that, because youll recall that somebody tried to blame Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy-

AJ: Ha ha. Yeah.

MS: - an amusing suggestion to those of us know a little bit more about that assassination than is in the public domain. Weve had a lone-gunman, a classic example of a lone-gunman assassination theory in Europe with the assassination of the Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, which was blamed on a lone-gunman. An explanation which doesnt carry much weight with me since in the photographs of the assassin that I saw, there was what appeared to me to be a very thin wire leading up to an ear-piece. Normally, Alex, lone-gunmen dont run around with radios and ear-pieces, particularly high-tech ones with-

AJ: Well it was the same thing with Yitzhak Rabin.

MS: Yeah.

AJ: Im mean Netanyahus giving speeches about `Somebody ought to get rid of this guy, and then Rabins security steps back and they blow him away, I mean 

MS: Well certainly respected commentators, Gerald [Gordon] Thomas is one who would say that the Rabin assassination definitely not down to a lone-gunman.

Then youve got illness. Now this is fairly rare. Its difficult to fake an illness. It was done in the case of a British politician, Hugh Gaitskill, who was opposed to Britain joining the European Economic Community, and he came down with a tropical disease in Moscow in the middle of winter. Generally speaking you-

AJ: [Laughs]

MS: [Laughs] It was spotted at the time as an assassination, but MI5, although theyd brought in Porton Down, where David Kelly worked incidentally, Porton Down were brought in but Porton Down couldnt work out how the disease which got Hugh Gaitskill, which is Lupus Disseminata, a very nasty disease indeed - attacks the organs, very similar to Ebola  how this tropical disease had found its way to Moscow, and they couldnt work out how, what the agent was for getting the Lupus into Hugh Gaitskill. We now know it was probably aerosol, but at the time that technology wasnt known about in England.

Then youve got accident and weve, there are a couple of interesting political assassinations in Zimbabwe, of road accidents which I would put a question mark against. Its less common to try and stage accidents, but its not unknown. A friend of mine was nearly taken out in Argentina a few years ago in what looked to me to be a slightly dubious accident.

AJ: Well what about Princess Diana? She says `Prince Charles is gonna kill me in a staged automobile accident and then she dies.

MS: Well the Diana assassination is certainly, probably the classic recent example of trying to make it look like an accident. Yes.

AJ: Weve been having all these microbiologists in government weapons programmes, will be in a, walking down the street of the university, and a van jumps the rail, chases them, runs them over then backs back over them, drives back over them, and the police just go `An accident, a hit and run.

MS: [Laughs] Well if you want the truth of the Diana assassination, the best people to talk to are the Israelis, because they had Danny Yatom, whos a lovely guy by the way, who was then head of Mossad in 97, who are really nice people, Danny had teams, I think, on the entrance to the Alma Tunnel and on the exit as well. Interesting man. Lovely chap.

AJ: Tunnels where?

MS: This is the Alma Tunnel where Diana where Diana was taken out.

AJ: Oh, yes. Yes.

MS: The seventh method of disguising assassinations in my experience is to try and use a naturally occurring poison. A favourite of intelligence agencies is Saxitoxin, which occurs in shellfish so its possible, providing you can get some shellfish into the stomach of the victim, Saxitoxin assassination providing youve successfully disguised the puncture wound, or you can find a method of getting the poison into the body. You know, you can get away with that if youre lucky.

And then the final method is the one tried in the case of David Kelly, that you try and make the murder look like suicide. But its very difficult. In this case the attempt to slash the wrist was pointless, because he was already dead. And theres not enough blood. None of the witnesses, in my judgement, reports enough blood consistent with him bleeding out and the medical experts weve talked to, and Ive been insisting on this, the medical experts generally reckon that for this, youd be looking for five pints, thats English pints of blood. Theres nothing Ive seen that persuades me that more than a pint was lost and thats about consistent with what youd expect from transecting one ulnar artery. Completely transecting it, it then retracts, clots, and you dont get, you get surprisingly little bleeding from cutting your ulnar artery. [inaudible]

AJ: Well, sir, can we keep you a little bit into the next hour, because I want to come back and go to Pat and Jim and Lenny and others that have been patiently holding?

MS: Id be delighted to talk to you. I didnt realise, Im sorry Ive been talking on and Ive been keeping people on the phone. I apologise to them and I look forward to talking to them.

AJ: Oh no, this is important information because this shows the type of things that are going on in our world and how the media tries to spin this, but why do you think the media have been so willing to go along with the official government story that its a suicide?

MS: Well, the political consequences, the mainstream media in the UK are largely committed to UK membership of the European Union, and my guess is that most of the newspapers in the UK would be worried about the political consequences of going public with any story suggesting David Kelly was assassinated. And then youve got technical competence, there arent that many good investigative journalists in the UK. Its not that difficult to get the mainstream media to buy an official version of events.

AJ: Yeah, its easy. Just [inaudible] the Fed says this, just write it and go drink a beer.

[Commercial Break]

AJ: Okay folks. Were back live here. And were about to go to your calls, everybodys been holding patiently for our guest. Going back to our guest, Michael Shrimpton, national security lawyer, barrister in England. Michael?

MS: Yeah.

AJ: Continuing with what we were discussing and just briefly recapping, you have a source who, in intelligence, talked to his other sources and it was widely known in intelligence that there was an order to get rid of Kelly, even before he died.

MS: My source learned after the assassination that others in Whitehall were aware of the assassination in advance, yes. And that source had spoken to, obviously he was a friend of David Kellys, knew him well, had worked with him, and clearly once his friend was found dead in a wood, made investigations and when he made investigations he discovered that this assassination was known about in advance. Yes.

AJ: And he told, and this is in the Associated Press, BBC, you name it, he told an American doctor who was on the team with him in Iraq, he said `If I dont shut up about this, Im gonna end up dead in the woods.

MS: Yeah. There was also an interesting conversation with David Broucher who was formerly British Ambassador in Prague in the Czech Republic, along similar lines. That, David Broucher I think was a witness, in fact, to the Hutton Inquiry. David Kelly worked, I never had the privilege of meeting him, I would have loved to have met him, my friend certainly worked with him and knew him. David worked very closely with the United States intelligence and worked very closely with Sergeant Mai Pederson in particular, but I get the impression he was very highly thought of in the US intelligence community as well.

AJ: Was this done by the pro-EU crowd? The globalists, I would call them? To put out a chilling effect into everybody in intelligence to keep your mouths shut?

MS: Broadly speaking, yes. Now motive is another question altogether. Its tolerably clear, one cant be certain, tolerably clear that he was taken out in order to prevent him talking. Now what is unclear is whether he was taken out because there was concern he was about to acquire intelligence that might be highly damaging, or taken out because he had acquired it and was about to talk to the media. We know there was concern about the extent of his media contacts, I mean  

AJ: He was also a microbiologist - 

MS: Correct.

AJ: - and theres been a whole bunch of those dying around the world. Lets take a call. Pat in Indiana, thanks for holding. Youre on the air with our guest, go ahead.

Pat: Yes, this is a little off the subject, but it has to do with  

AJ: Maam, you dont have your radio on, do you? Or a speakerphone or something? Cos Im not gonna be able to talk to you if you dont turn it off.

Pat: He did.

AJ: Okay go ahead.

Pat: Okay, its about a couple of subjects I want to air

AJ: Im gonna have to go ahead and put her on hold. Im sorry Maam, but somethings wrong with your phone or you got your radio on. Lets try to bring her back up one more time and then Ill have to let her go. Pat, go ahead.

Pat: This is on a couple of  I dont know whats wrong because we turned our radio off.

AJ: Okay, its alright. Go ahead.

Pat: Okay. This is on a couple of subjects, one from Earlham College and one from the Town Hall meeting I had with Mike [inaudible] on Friday.

AJ: Maam, is this concerning our guest.

Pat: No.

AJ: Because you told us that you wanted to talk to our guest. Im gonna have to put you on hold.

MS: Nice to talk to you anyway, Pat.

AJ: Yeah, nice to talk to you. You know were about to break and start the next hour and then well sort out whats going on with the calls and well get to em. Lets um, I know theres a whole bunch of calls here for you, well try to sort em out and find out whats going on as we talk to our guest, Michael Shrimpton, a national intelligence barrister in England. I bet you see all kinds of just amazing stuff in your job.

MS: I do, yes [laughs]. Not all that I can talk about on the air. And I meet some interesting people. And I had a very interesting visit to Israel in the middle of last year, looking at the new security fence being built.

AJ: Alright, well, I hear the music, so that means weve got to go ahead and break. And when we get back and start the third hour well go straight to your calls, folks. You wanna talk to our guest, its 1-800 259 9231. 1-800 259 9231.

[Commercial Break]

AJ: Alright, my friends. Now into the third hour. Were talking to Michael Shrimpton, national security barrister in England with his intelligence sources concerning the murder of Dr David Kelly. And British people are very suspicious as are many other folks around the world. And more and more is coming out. Lets go ahead and go to Jim in Illinois. Jim, thanks for holding, youre on the air with our guest. Go ahead.

Jim: I have two quick questions. Mr Shrimpton, what is David Kellys wife saying about his murder?

MS: Janice Kelly  hi Jim  Janice Kelly accepts that it was suicide, at least thats her official position.

Jim: Next question. Why didnt the British, or the American or the Israeli intelligence assassinate Saddam Hussein before the war?

MS: Well thats a big question, probably better directed to intelligence officials. Assassination is very - Im opposed to assassinations in principle, one of the reasons why Im outraged by David Kellys assassination  assassination is a double-edged sword and I think had we gone in and taken out Saddam Hussein, that would have rebounded on both Britain and America very quickly. So I think the call not to assassinate him was probably well made. Its also more difficult to assassinate politicians like Saddam Hussein than first appears. You remember the CIAs farcical efforts to try to get rid of Fidel Castro.

Jim: Right.

MS: They had a go for several years and they didnt get anywhere close to assassinating him with exploding cigars and what-have-you. I would say the call not to take Saddam Hussein out was right. The danger with assassinating somebody like Saddam Hussein, you build up inside Iraq popular support for his regime  

AJ: Yeah, you turn him into a martyr and also itll cause a revolution even before you get there and you wont control, kind of, the way the balls break. Thanks for the call. Thats a really good question. Anything else Jim?

Jim: No thankyou.

MS: Great to talk to you, Jim.

AJ: Ive got a question.

MS: Great state, Illinois. Been there.

AJ: [Chuckles] Ive got a question for you, Michael. Where is all this going as more and more doctors and people come forward, and as you come forward and say its clear that he was murdered. I mean where does all this go for Tony Blair?

MS: Well there are indications that he may be preparing to resign. Hes denied officially over the weekend that hes been planning to resign, which is an indication that he is. Never believe anything until its officially denied. A number of key advisors have bailed out. Alastair Campbell, another key advisor, Philip Gould, has just been offered a peerage, which is a form of retirement we have in England that you dont have in the United States  

AJ: Michael Meacher, months ago.

MS: Michael Meacher, yes. There are now calls, Michael Meachers just issued a call, hes former government  nice chap  former government minister. Michael has issued a call over the last weekend, calling on him to go. There are indications that he is on his way out, but you know, its up to him. Or up to his party.

AJ: Well that would certainly be good. I mean have you ever had a Prime Minister this bad?

MS: Well, thats a political question. The answer is `probably, but I cant remember when. Its a close toss-up between Tony Blair, John Major and Lord North who lost the American colonies, but from your point of view Lord North was probably quite good to have in Downing Street.

AJ: [Laughs] Thats funny.

MS: Neville Chamberlain. I think that, without being disrespectful to my Prime Minister on the air, I think its a close call between Tony Blair and Neville Chamberlain.

AJ: [Laughs]

MS: You have to, you know, you have to, you could have ten different politicians and economists and military strategists sit around a table and come up with ten different answers as to whether Neville Chamberlain surrendered more of Europe than Tony Blair, and whether Tony Blair surrendered more to France and Germany than Neville Chamberlain did. Its a close run thing.

AJ: Well I think its clearly Tony Blair if he gets what he wants.

MS: Yes, I had the, I have to say having met Tony Blair, hes not, hes quite a pleasant, personable individual. Hes not a monster when you meet him.

AJ: Well they said that about Adolf Hitler too. Yknow weve got a break. Well come right back and well go to Lenny Bloom whos been on this story, and well also talk to David in Texas and a few other callers for our guest, and then well get to Bob and Ron and others, and a bunch of other key news items. Stay with us.

[Commercial Break]

AJ: Just an absolutely amazing and riveting interview over the last hour and eight minutes with our guest - national security barrister, lawyer, who has consulted with the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence here in the US, and given speeches, and consulted around the world, and writes for major terrorism journals - going over well, just a lot of interesting facts for us. Like usually if youve got some type of terrorist assassination, terrorists killing people, theres usually a government behind them using them as a go-between. Oh weve discovered that here in our research too. And going over the evidence of how Dr David Kelly was killed, and the elements inside governments that did it and why. Lets take a few calls. Well go to David and Ian and a few others here in a few minutes, but right now lets go to Lenny Bloom whos been a guest on this show before and has a website []. I know last week they got some rumblings of this story and put it out. Lenny, whats on your mind?

Lenny: Well welcome, thanks for having me back, Alex, youre doing a tremendous yeomans service job. You know the pilots who fly these assassination teams around the world dont have a public responsibility to tell the media, tell the truth, tell people. But the media has a core responsibility. Yknow these things, theres so many people involved that Ive known and been a part of as a spy-pilot over the years. This thing with Dr Kelly is something thats interesting, ever since the Duke of Edinburgh said he wanted to become a deadly virus and come back and be reincarnated we have kept a biochemical doctors death-list, for good reason. The Duke doesnt want to be suspected or blamed for his actions. Its really interesting and clear whats going on here, its right in front of everybodys nose.

AJ: Okay Lenny, do you have any questions or comments for our guest?

Lenny: Yeah, I just want to say thanks for coming out, I think thats great that youre starting to dig into the whole thing. I think Kelly was number fifty on the death-list, and I think thats wonderful.

AJ: Lenny, let me ask our guest that. Are you familiar, sir, that theres been all over the western world, Australia, Russia, western Europe, England, the US, top bio-weapons scientists being murdered and that Kelly just so happened to be one more on that list?

MS: Well Im aware of an unusually high percentage of microbiologists going south and its  put it this way, its attracted my interest. I think David Kelly wasnt taken out as part of a systematic campaign to take out WMD scientists.

Lenny: I didnt say that. Hes part of a death-list though and there may be different reason for it. 

MS: Hi Lenny, good to hear from you. You mentioned you were a spy pilot. What planes were you flying?

Lenny: Well Im rather grounded right now!

MS: What did you used to fly?

Lenny: I flew everything from F18s to F14s to Cessna 172s to Bell 206s and my student became Air Force One helicopter for ten years. Hes a three star general.

MS: I wish I could introduce you to a client of mine who once flew an aeroplane called the Lockheed U-2A over the Soviet Union with a guy called Gary Powers.

AJ: Wow.

MS: Yeah.

AJ: Well thanks for the call, Lenny. I appreciate that. And thanks for all your work.

MS: Great to talk to you, Lenny.

AJ: Yeah, lets talk to David in Texas. David, youre on the air. Go ahead.

David: Hello sir?

AJ: Yes, go ahead.

MS: Hi David.

David: Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a quick question on the media. I know that youre involved in intelligence, but like in our country we dont see a lot of programming on Tel-Aviv and Palestinian television, and I know they present a very, you know er, I dont know er, ethical code of fatwa and things of that such, and we dont [inaudible] a lot of that, and Im curious [inaudible]

AJ: Okay, Im trying to understand exactly what youre saying. Boil it down for us.

David: Well, the promotion of dying for Allah is a shown thing on TV in Tel-Aviv and the media doesnt really focus on that here in the United States. Im wondering what your view is on that and do you see that in Europe?

MS: Well  

David: Ill go ahead and listen. Thank you.

MS: Okay David. Well always a pleasure to talk to somebody from  whereabouts in Texas are you from?

AJ: I believe hes gone.

MS: Oh hes gone. Well let me answer his question as a courtesy to him. Im not very impressed of media coverage of the middle-east generally. I do subscribe to a very interesting service called MEMRI, the Middle East Media Research Institute, and some of the stuff they come up with on what is broadcast on mainstream media in Egypt and Saudi Arabia concerning Israel is just shocking. Its like the 1930s all over again. Very, very disturbing stuff. So Im not very impressed with mainstream coverage of the middle-east, and that was partly why I went to the middle-east in June, a little fact-finding tour. [Inaudible]

AJ: You were there with the IDF on the ground, what did you learn?

MS: Well I was very impressed with the way the IDF ran check-points. I talked to a check-point commander in Jenin, for example, very impressed with what I saw; very impressed with the security fence which is clearly having an impact in those sectors of the West Bank where its been erected.[Inaudible]

AJ: Well I know this. We sure need one of those on the southern border of the US.

MS: [Laughs]

AJ: And I want one. That things beautiful.

MS: Well I think your southern border is a bit porous and as weve seen on 9/11, porous borders can present dangers. And er  

AJ: Well Im not kidding, Ive literally seen photos of that thing and I start salivating on it.

MS: Yeah.

AJ: Because just the raping and killing and robbery and Mexican troops and killing federal officers, and our news doesnt even report on it. I mean it is bedlam on our southern border.

MS: Your southern border is not particularly well protected, with every respect to the guys and girls who are down there protecting it. But, no, they need more resources and er 

AJ: But back to the IDF, Im sorry for interrupting.

MS: Well Im a big fan of the IDF. I was very impressed meeting and talking with erm, from soldiers up to generals. I think the IDF are doing a good job. I think the Israelis know far more about counter-terrorism than we do in Britain or in the United States. My general line with Israel is I think, we in the west, the rest of the west  Israel is part of the west  we need to get off the Israelis back and let them go and do the job. They do know what theyre doing.

AJ: Well certainly they know how to build a fence and I wish we had one of those.

Ms: [Laughs] The fence is very impressive. Its more than a fence of course, its a, youve got a ditch, youve got a roadway that allows regular patrolling, easy access to any terrorist incursion, good surveillance, some good, high-tech stuff there. The security barrier is a very impressive development.

AJ: Yeah. Lets go ahead and now and, whos up next in line here, Stephanie? Ian in Canada, youre on the air with our guest. Go ahead.

Ian: Thanks Alex. I wanted to ask your guest, I wanted to explore the occultic implications of David Kellys death and by illustration I want to refer to a case that he may be familiar with  Air Marshall Sir Peter Horsley - they tried to take him out like Diana, with rigged brakes on his BMW in the mid-80s, just between Amesbury Circle and Stonehenge, about 660 yards, if you can believe it, into his drive west along the motorway. There was that occultic association and what Im wondering is because David Kelly, you reported, probably died on July 17th which is right in the middle of that high holiday they celebrate at Bohemian Grove, Alex. That was the date that  

AJ: Ill tell you what, let me bring this up to him. I dont know if hes aware of it but Skull and Bones, admittedly a weird, occult organisation; Bohemian Grove, I snuck into it, that was on national British television, the footage I shot a few years ago. Its also aired here. In some of these killings, they do seem to do it in a ritualistic fashion; that was brought up with Princess Diana. Do you want to get into that or is that too?

MS: No. I dont see, with respect to you in Canada - I dont know where abouts in Canada you are, but its a great country  I dont see any occult relationship with the Kelly assassination at all. Im not familiar with, I dont know Sir Peter Horsley and Im not familiar with that. Was that an attempted assassination?

Ian: He claims that he was being used to take somebody else out, but they rigged his BMW and I believe he was 

AJ: See heres the problem. We cant solve this other stuff in that we cant prove, Ian. Then when the news goes and listens to this interview its, you know, discussions of you know, things we cant prove. Thats the problem.

Ian: Well Alex, if the guest wants to explore this, the book that Sir Peter wrote is `Voices From Another Room and hed find it in the UK.

AJ: Okay. Well thank you for that. I really appreciate it.

MS: I know plenty of air marshalls, Im sure I can find an air marshall who knows or knew Sir Peter.

AJ: Alright. And I guess up next is Wayne. Wayne, where are you calling us from? Okay, Wayne is gone. Lets go ahead and go to Bob in California. Bob go ahead. Youre on the air Bob.

Bob: Im kinda sorry Im not on topic today. I wanted to call you about the Diebold machines that our county is using on us for touch-tone voting.

AJ: Yknow what, Im gonna put you on hold and well get to you coming up in the next segment. I wanna  

MS: Good morning Bob. Thats an interesting subject but not one on which I could give any qualified comment.

AJ: [Laughs] Well weve got so many callers here its hard to figure out whos calling in on subject. It would be nice if they did call in on subject.

MS: Youre a popular guy, Alex, and I can understand having listened to your show why youve got a lot of feedback.

AJ: Ah, well its great. A lot of great people out there. Weve obviously got to have you back on because youre a very intelligent, very informative person because theres not many people I get on the show who end up knowing more about intelligence matters, because I study it, pretty much perpetually. Youve brought out some very important information and I really want to thank you for coming on the show Mr Shrimpton.

MS: Alex, its been my pleasure and a privilege.

AJ: And for those that just joined us, again, Michael Shrimpton, a national intelligence lawyer or barrister in England, and he writes for major intelligence journals and has consulted around the world on intelligence matters and he was coming on, exposing the murder of Dr David Kelly. Do you think those that were responsible will ever be brought to justice sir?

MS: I dont think they will. I think those immediately responsible are already dead. My guess is they were taken out within 24-48 hours of the assassination. I suspect those involved in tasking the assassination will be dealt with informally and will be given valuable guidance and the public will not get to know about it, and my guess is that the coroner, Nick Gardiner, who has jurisdiction to hold an inquest will not hold an inquest. That means no jury will ever enquire into the reasons for David Kelly dying.

AJ: Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well be back folks.